What is the "endgame" to UFO disclosure? In this 2023 conversation with the Thirdphaseofmoon channel, recorded as their documentary "UFO Endgame to Disclosure" climbed the iTunes and Amazon charts, Billy Carson argues that disclosure will not be handed down by governments but built from the inside out: enough people who want the truth reaching positions where they can release it. Along the way he gives his reading of the February 2023 balloon shootdowns, the Pentagon "mothership" paper, how far ahead classified technology really is, and why the secret is kept at all.
The interview is short and was made to promote the film, so this companion also supplies context: what the documentary is, who appears in it, and which of Carson's claims rest on public record and which on his own account of private meetings. His talk with Dr Steven Greer on the New Jersey drones covers the same ground from the other side of the two years that followed.
What is UFO Endgame to Disclosure?
A 2023 documentary from the Thirdphaseofmoon team featuring Dr Steven Greer, aerospace historian Michael Schratt, Lockheed historian James C. Goodall, former FBI agent John DeSouza and Carson. The hosts open by saying it had reached number one on iTunes and number two on Amazon Prime for documentaries, and Carson treats that as evidence for his thesis: executives at the big platforms chose to put the film "up front," which he calls "an example of us being able to infiltrate mainstream from the inside out." The film's trailer, played during the interview, sets its tone: crash retrievals as "the Rosetta Stone" of the cover-up, the warning that "ninety-plus percent of everything that's going to come out is false," and the line that "the most widely seen UFO right now is not alien, it's actually ours."
Schratt's crash-retrieval material is the subject of a separate 4biddenknowledge episode, UFO crash retrievals explained, and Greer's position is laid out in Cosmic Conversations.
What does Carson mean by "the endgame"?
Asked directly, he says the endgame is "exactly what you and I are both doing": opening enough eyes and hearts that people who want the truth released eventually hold the positions that can release it. He describes it as "infiltrating the system from the inside out" and "softening the blow," and he predicts a day when mainstream institutions say "yes, these are real, it's been happening for a very long time, we have been trying to cover it up, but no more." He says he expects to be alive when it happens, while adding, "I don't think it's going to happen tomorrow."
The hosts point to Congressman Tim Burchett's hints of further hearings as a sign the process is moving. Carson agrees the hearings are a step, but his view of their framing is less generous than their existence, as the next section shows. Readers can follow what the hearings actually produced in the UAP hearings explained.
What did Carson make of the balloon shootdowns?
In February 2023 a United States fighter shot down a Chinese high-altitude balloon off South Carolina, followed within days by three smaller objects over Alaska, the Yukon and Lake Huron that the White House later said were probably benign research or hobby balloons. Carson's reading is two-layered. First, he thinks "some type of strange anomaly" over the northern seaboard drew the attention of China, Russia and the United States at once, which is why so many balloons appeared. Second, he notes that the later objects were described as having no tail, wings, cockpit or pilot, and he floats the possibility that they were technologies "we are testing out" that were then shot down to make a point.
That point, in his view, is conditioning. "I think they're prepping the consciousness of the people so they can continue to move money into the Space Force," he says, because "there's no more wars to fight here on this planet" and "the next big move is space." He doubts an F-22 could bring down a genuine craft: "they come and go whenever they want, the real ones." The idea that a staged threat from above could justify a trillion-dollar budget is one Greer has argued for decades and Carson repeats in his drones conversation; it is a prediction, not a documented plan.
Is there really a mothership heading our way?
The hosts raise the March 2023 draft paper by Harvard's Avi Loeb and the Pentagon's Sean Kirkpatrick, which proposed that an interstellar "parent craft" could release small probes in our solar system, and which NBC News covered as "a mothership." Carson says he was shocked to see it in his feed and gives a rule for reading such stories: "If they go with the threat angle, I tend to believe it's not real. If they go with a non-threat angle, I tend to believe it's real." He says he does believe giant motherships exist; what he distrusts is a government announcing one. He examines the paper itself in Alien mothership in our solar system, alongside the Black Knight satellite story his own documentary covers.
He also replies to a remark by the commander of NORAD that there was "no evidence" of aliens. In Carson's reading the general was "being sarcastic," because decades of declassified files and the AATIP documents exist; what he meant was "we have information, we don't want to share it," since admitting craft they cannot control would make the people charged with protecting airspace "look inadequate." That is Carson's interpretation of a public statement, and the article notes it as such.
How far ahead is classified technology?
This is the interview's most-quoted claim. Carson says he owns a research company, First Class Space Agency, registered with NASA and the European Space Agency, and that it has given him access to symposiums and private meetings in the space sector, some with top-secret clearance holders. From those, he says, "they are about 300 years ahead of us right now technologically," and "whatever you can think of or dream up has already been accomplished or at least tested in a laboratory." His analogy is the SR-71 Blackbird, flying at the edge of space in the 1960s and unknown to the public for two decades.
The hosts add the quotation attributed to Lockheed Skunk Works director Ben Rich, "we now have the technology to take ET home," which Rich's friend James Goodall has repeated and which has never been documented in writing. Carson's "300 years" figure is his own estimate from private conversations and cannot be checked; the documented history of what classified aerospace programmes have and have not produced is in the secret space program explained.
In the clip from the film, he adds the mechanism: black-budget projects are run through private corporations because corporations are not subject to Freedom of Information Act requests, so the public gets the technology "one slight trickle at a time."
Why keep it secret?
Carson gives one answer with two parts. Control the technology and you control the planet's money: by "spoon-feeding" fibre optics here and microchips there, the people who hold the advanced inventory set the pace of civilisation and the flow of jobs. And release it and you lose that control, because technologies that give "simple things like water and electricity" to poorer countries make them "almost equals." His figure for who holds that control is "about 100 families" over eight billion people.
His remedy is non-participation. He points to the pandemic shutdowns as proof that the world can stop and restart, and argues that if people stopped "playing their game" voluntarily, they could "renegotiate the deal" for the whole planet rather than one country or flag. This is the same closing argument he makes in UAPs vs UFOs: disclosure as a change in consciousness rather than a press conference.
What else is in the interview?
The last third promotes the first 4bidden Conscious Awards, held in Miami on 30 July 2023, with fan-voted categories for podcasters, authors, researchers, space-anomaly hunters and a lifetime achievement award. Carson describes quartz pyramid trophies and the venue, and the Thirdphaseofmoon hosts note they were among the nominees. It is a snapshot of the community the film came out of rather than part of the argument.
Key takeaways
- Carson's "endgame" is cultural, not procedural: enough people wanting the truth that the institutions change from within.
- He reads the 2023 balloon shootdowns and the mothership paper as narrative-shaping for a space budget, while believing the underlying phenomenon is real.
- The "300 years ahead" estimate comes from his own private meetings and is not independently verifiable; the FOIA point about private contractors is accurate as far as it goes.
- His explanation for secrecy is economic control, and his proposed response is mass non-participation.
Watch, read, listen
Watch the interview above or on the 4biddenknowledge Podcast page. Billy's own films, including "Black Knight Satellite: Beyond the Signal," are on 4BK TV under Documentaries. For the consciousness side of his disclosure argument, see the Consciousness topic hub, and for the full set of UFO articles, the UFOs and extraterrestrials category.
Frequently asked questions
What is "UFO Endgame to Disclosure"?
A 2023 documentary produced by the Thirdphaseofmoon channel featuring Steven Greer, Michael Schratt, James C. Goodall, John DeSouza and Billy Carson, released on streaming platforms where, according to the hosts, it reached number one on iTunes.
What were the February 2023 shootdowns?
A Chinese surveillance balloon was shot down off South Carolina on 4 February 2023, followed by three unidentified objects over Alaska, Canada and Lake Huron. The administration later said the three were likely private or research balloons. Carson suggests they may have been domestic test technology.
Did the Pentagon say a mothership is in the solar system?
No. A March 2023 draft paper by Avi Loeb and Sean Kirkpatrick proposed, as a hypothesis, that an interstellar parent craft could release probes. Media headlines turned that into "a mothership." Carson distrusts the official framing more than the idea.
Is technology really 300 years ahead of the public?
That is Carson's estimate from private meetings and cannot be verified. The documented record shows classified aircraft running one to two decades ahead of public knowledge, with the SR-71 and the F-117 as examples.
What does Billy Carson think will bring disclosure?
People, not governments: researchers, filmmakers and audiences normalising the subject until enough insiders are willing to release what they hold. He predicts it in his lifetime but not soon.
Sources mentioned
"UFO Endgame to Disclosure" (Thirdphaseofmoon, 2023); the February 2023 balloon and object shootdowns; the Loeb and Kirkpatrick draft paper (March 2023) and NBC News coverage; Congressman Tim Burchett's hearing statements; the NORAD commander's "no evidence" remark; the AATIP documents; the Ben Rich quotation via James C. Goodall; the SR-71 Blackbird; First Class Space Agency; and the 4bidden Conscious Awards, Miami, July 2023.
